This is a relatively late qin melody title, not occurring in early lists and first published only in 1559. However, it quickly became very popular, surviving in over 40 handbooks to 1910. There was quite a bit of variety in the early versions, and the melody subsequently underwent considerable development, but all available versions seem melodically related. It is still very actively played today (see appendix below).³

The general idea conveyed by commentaries is that, whereas most people talk about worldly matters that in the end mean little, the dialogue between the fisherman and woodcutter gets right to the essence. The Chinese system put a great emphasis on education. At the same time there was the Daoist idea that one could have great understanding through living in nature, without formal education. By convention, such understanding was often ascribed to fishermen (yu) and woodcutters (qiao, also translated as fuel gatherers).⁴

Although no surviving handbooks include this title prior to Taiyin Xupu (1559), the number and variety of versions which occur around then suggest it might have existed for some time before it was written down.⁵ And some of the commentaries in early handbooks directly suggest that it is quite an old melody; one (see 1589) even seems to connect it with the famous 13th century compilation Zixiadong Qinpu.

At least 10 versions of this melody have lyrics. The preface to the earliest of these, dated 1585, says that it was an old melody, but there were no lyrics attached to it; and that there were appropriate lyrics (or indications there had been lyrics), but none of these was accompanied by tablature. The preface goes on to say the author applied lyrics to the melody, but there is no suggestion one way or the other as to whether the lyrics he used might be similar to some that were applied earlier to a lost version of this melody, whether these lyrics belonged to an unrelated melody on the same theme, or whether they have no earlier musical connection at all.⁶

These early versions, usually in six sections, are all quite a bit shorter than the modern versions, which usually have 9 or 10 sections. A comparison of the versions suggests that later editions omit some passages, add new ones, expand many passages from earlier versions, with the last three sections having mostly newer material. The earliest substantial additions are extended passages in the upper registers (above the 7th position) in sections added on at the end of the earlier versions. These seem to date from the mid-17th century (see 1670).⁷ Around that time there seems to have been a change in the modality: with the original tonal center being do (1) on the open first string, there is an increase in the occurrence of fa (4), open third string. This perhaps suggests that the open-string tuning should be considered as 5 6 1 2 3 5 6 rather than 1 2 4 5 6 1 2, in which case the tonal center has changed from do to so.⁸

The fisherman and a woodcutter have been commonly paired as a motif in Chinese poetry since at least the Tang dynasty,⁹ but the earliest known literary occurrence of this title is for an essay attributed to the philosopher Shao Yong (1011 - 1077).¹⁰ Around the same time the famous poet Su Shi (1037-1101) also wrote on this theme.¹¹

In popular literature the theme appears in at least one opera,¹² and the popular novel Xi You Ji (Journey to the West), as written by Wu Cheng'en (1500 - 1582) contains such a dialogue in Chapter 10.

After this the theme remained popular in Chinese poetry. It is also commonly seen as a pictorial theme in the traditional paintings of China, as well as of Korea and Japan.¹³

Xu Jian discusses this melody in the chapter on Ming melodies in his Outline History of the Qin. The example he uses, though, seems to be late Qing dynasty, with passages not occuring in the Ming dynasty versions.¹⁴

 
Original Preface (1559)¹⁵
Not yet translated.

 
Music
Six Sections

 
Footnotes (Shorthand references are explained on a separate page)

1 Yu Qiao Wenda 漁樵問答 18586.103: Name of an Essay, in one folio, by 邵雍 Shao Yong.

  Further references to the theme of fishermen and woodcutters include:

2 The mode of this melody seems to change some time during the 17th century. See further comments below. (Return)

3 See Zha's Guide 24/203/398 and appendix below. Only four of the versions seem to have titles for individual sections: 1585, 1611 1620 and 1730. (Return)

4 The most famous example of such a woodcutter is Zhong Ziqi. See also the Woodcutter's Song and Fisherman's Song. (Return)

5 Zha Fuxi's Guide, p. 24, says it is "明代嘉慶以前" (Ming dynasty before the Jiaqing period, 1522 - 67), but does not explain how he came to this conclusion. Tablature printed in many copies had a better chance of surviving than these individual pieces or handbooks. And in addition to the known surviving handbooks, there would have also been hand-copied tablature for individual melodies and melody collections, copied out by/for teachers in various regions. But there is no specific information on such tablature for Yu Qiao Wenda. See also the comments in the chart below. (Return)

6 The lyrics adapted to the various versions of Yu Qiao Wenda are often completely different from each other; see chart below. (Return)

7 Modern interpretations usually claim to be based on the version in Qinxue Rumen. (Return)

8 Mode in Yu Qiao Wenda
As is common with Ming dynasty shang mode melodies, the main note in the early versions of Yu Qiao Wenda is 1 (do); secondary notes 2 and 5. The modern versions, though related, seem to have a somewhat different tonal sense. Already in the early versions 4 (fa) is more common than usual (classic understanding says that if standard tuning is played as 1 2 4 5 6 1 2, then the open third string is generally avoided). In the later versions of Yu Qiao Wenda the 4 becomes more important than 3. So in these later versions, to retain the standard pentatonic scale 1 2 3 5 6 requires considering the open third string as do (i.e., the tuning becomes 5 6 1 2 3 5 6). However, in this case the main note has become 5 (the open first string).

The new modal sense for Yu Qiao Wenda seems to survive earliest from the version published in 1670, where it is connected to 周東岡 Zhou Donggang (QQJC/XI, p.343).

The change of modality seems to contrast with that of Qiujiang Yebo: it has the standard pentatonic scale (1 2 3 5 6), but in the earliest versions sometimes 3 is flatted; later the flatted 3s are replaced by 4s, but both non-pentatonic tones are dropped by 1673. (Return)

9 Lundbaek (see next), p. 14; see also the footnote above. (Return)

10 Shao Yong, Dialogue between a Fisherman and a Woodcutter
邵雍，漁樵問答 or 漁樵對問 . This essay, which has been translated by Knud Lundbaek under the same title (Hamburg, C. Bell Verlag, 1986), might be better called A Fisheman Lectures a Woodcutter. The woodcutter asks a few questions, but it is mostly the fisheman (Shao Yong himself) discussing his philosophical ideas. (Return)

11 Su Shi, Leisurely Conversation between a Fisherman and Woodcutter
蘇軾，漁樵閑話 Su Shi, Yu Qiao Xianhua. Any translations? (Return)

12 See LXS, p. 130: 漁樵閑話 Yu Qiao Xianhua (as above). The story involves the four occupations of 漁、樵、耕、牧 fisherman, woodcutter, ploughman and herdsman. (四___? Not 四業﹕士、農、工、商.; there are references to a 漁樵耕牧四詠 by 郭真順 Guo Zhenshun [1312 - 1436 ! ; Bio/2024; writer, wife of 周伯玉]). (Return)

13 Here are some current online references:

• A painting by Yi Myeong-uk (17th Cen.) in the Gansong Art Museum

• References to Japanese painting.

• From Asahi Shimbun:
  "The Meguro Gajoen Hotel in Tokyo has a 30-mat Gyosho no ma (Fisherman and Woodcutter Room) named after a contrarian debate between the two men that takes seemingly contradictory positions such as "up is down." Images of a woodcutter and the fisherman Urashima Taro, the central character in a folk tale, are carved on two pillars flanking the alcove."
  (Return)

14 琴史初編, pp.141-3. The example he uses seems to be a modern one based on the version in Qinxue Rumen. The first example is the phrase at the end of Section 1, repeated up a fifth in Section 2 and up an octave in Section 6. There are hints at this beginning in the 1589 edition, but is is not developed until much later. (Return)

15 The original is:
唐人雲：“漢家事業空流水，魏國山河半夕陽”。 古今興廢有若反掌，青山綠水則固無恙，千載得失是非，盡付之漁樵一話而已。 (Return)

Return to the annotated handbook list or to the Guqin ToC.

 

Appendix I: Chart Tracing Yu Qiao Wenda 漁樵問答; based mainly on Zha Fuxi's Guide, 24/203/398.

琴譜     (year; Vol/page)	Further information (QQJC = 琴曲集成 Qinqu Jicheng; QF = 琴府 Qin Fu)
1. 太音續譜       (1559; III.4/433)	6 sections; shang mode (1245612); after the opening it is very different from the modern 10-section version, though motifs in sections 1 to 4 relate to motifs in the modern sections 1 to 5; has a preface
2. 新刊正文對音捷要       琴譜正傳 (1573; --)	Not included in this handbook, which is an earlier edition of 1585, see below
3. 五音琴譜       (1579; IV.2/217)	6 sections; quite different from 1559; sections 1-4 are recognizably similar to 1-5 of modern version; 5th starts like modern's 6th, but in 1579 the 6th repeats 3rd, then closes with harmonics
4. 重修真傳琴譜       (1585; IV/363)	9 sections, titled; lyrics form a dialogue ("漁問樵曰，子何求。樵答漁曰，數椽茅屋...."; not in 1573; compare 1589). Preface begins, "漁樵問答，古操也。查遺譜有指訣無音文，考琴史有文音無指訣。今配定文音入譜...."
5. 玉梧琴譜       (1589; VI.1/30)	6 sections; music is like 1579, thus differing from 1559; but preface = 1559, adding only that the information comes from "紫霞洞考...". (Refers to Zixiadong Qinpu?). 3rd (漁...樵) = 6th ("漁至樵")
6. 真傳正宗琴譜       (1589; VII/88)	In 楊倫太古遺音 Yang Lun Taigu Yiyin; 8 sections, titled; new lyrics (like 1620, 1709 and 1730; reprinted 1609?) Dialogue indicated by section titles (contrast 1585): 1. 漁樵問敘; 2. 漁; 3. 樵; 4. 漁; 5. 樵; 6. 漁; 7. 樵; 8. 漁樵並樂.
7. 琴書大全       (1590; V/476)	6 sections; similar to 1589, though sectioning is different
8. 文會堂琴譜       (1596; VI.3/211)	6 sections; similar to earlier versions
9. 藏春塢琴譜       (1602; VI.4/335)	6 sections; same preface and music as 1589
10. 楊掄太古遺音       (1609; VII/xxx)	QQJC skips this, having already printed the presumably identical 1589 edition Zha's Guide has the lyrics, p. 399ff (see Appendix III: "靠舟 [or 丹] 崖，整頓絲釣。人山濯足溪流....")
11. 陽春堂琴譜       (1611; VII.4/448)	In 太古正音 Taigu Zhengyin; 9 sections, titled; lyrics (again different from previous)
12. 理性元雅       (1618; VIII.3/236)	12 sections; new lyrics
13. 太音希聖       (1620; IX.2/160)	8 sections, titled; lyrics (both are completely different from 1585, but related to 1589, 1709 etc.); Sections 2-7 alternate between fisherman and woodcutter (also as in 1589, 1709, etc.)
14. 樂仙琴譜       (1623; VIII.4/368)	9 sections and new preface, but music is like older versions 5th and 9th sections are harmonics
15. 古音正宗       (1634; IX.3/289)	6 sections; also called 金門待漏 Jinmen Dailou (Awaiting Appointment at Jinmen ?; 41049.xxx) 3/945 dailou refers to a Jinmen dailou)
16. 羲軒琴經       (late Ming; IX.5/417)	5 sections
17. 陶氏琴譜       (late Ming; IX.6/453)	9 sections (unnumbered); lyrics as 1589
18. 徽言秘旨       (1647; X.1)	Called 漁樵 Yu Qiao; 8 sections; lyrics as 1589
19. 徽言秘旨訂       (1692; X.2)	Same as 1647?
20. 琴苑新傳全編       (1670; XI.4/343)	9 sections; preface begins, "是曲周東岡譜....This melody uses the tablature of Zhou Donggang....". More fas; latter half has extended passages above 7th position: forerunner of modern version?
21. 一峰園琴譜       (1709; XIII.5/498)	Called 漁樵話 Yu Qiao Hua; 6 sections, unnumbered; lyrics
22. 東皋琴譜 (Japan)       (1709; see XII.2/270)	1898 edition; 8 sections; lyrics as 1589, 2-7 alternating between fisherman and woodcutter
23. 立雪齋琴譜       (1730; XV?)	8 sections; lyrics as 1589 Facsimile edition, Folio 1, p.24
24. 琴書千古       (1738; ?)	8 sections 楊表正 version (lyrics?)
25. 琴劍合譜       (1749; ?)	8 sections
26. 穎陽琴譜       (1751; XVI.1/79)	8 sections; no lyrics, but 2-7 alternate between fisherman and woodcutter
27. 蘭田館琴譜       (1760; XVI.2/)	8 sections; lyrics (missing from QQJC edition)
28. 裛露軒琴譜       (>1802; ?)	8 sections, titled "太古遺音"
29. 琴譜諧聲       (1820; ?)	8 sections
30. 琴學軔端       (1828; ?)	8 sections; lyrics "楊表正作 by Yang Biaozheng"
31. 悟雪山房琴譜       (1836)	8 sections "古岡遺譜" (should be 東岡?)
32. 琴學入門       (1864; QF/640)	10 sections; gongche notation added; modern versions usually say they are based on this one With 1st string as do: many fa; if third string = do: main note so (compare early versions)
33. 琴瑟合譜       (1870; QF/692)	7 sections
34. 以六正五之齋       琴譜祕書 (1875)
35. 天聞閣琴譜       (1876)	Two versions; the first is attributed to 周東岡 Zhou Donggang
36. 希韶閣琴譜       (1878)	Called 金門待漏 (?)
37. 雙琴書屋琴譜集成       (1884)	Called 金門待漏 (?)
38. 綠綺清韻       (1884)
39. 枯木禪琴譜       (1893)	Attributes melody to 楊表正 Yang Biaozheng (1585)
40. 琴學初津       (1894)
41. 琴學叢書       (1910; 琴府11)
42. 山西育才館雅樂講義       (1922)
43. 夏一峰傳譜       (1957)	p.27 (TKW/2081)
44. 研易習琴齋琴譜       (1961)	Folio 2, #5
45. 愔愔室琴譜       (2000)	page 173
46. 虞山吳氏琴譜       (2001)	page 24

 

Appendix II: Lyrics for Yu Qiao Wenda 漁樵問答; As paired to the music in 重修真傳琴譜 Chongxiu Zhenchuan Qinpu (1585)

1.

漁問樵曰： "子何求？"

樵答漁曰： "數椽茅屋，綠樹青山，時出時還。生涯不在西方；斧斤丁丁，云中之巒。"

2.

漁又詰之：     "草木逢春，生意不然不可遏；代之為薪，生長莫達！"

樵又答之曰： "木能生火，火能熟物，火与木，天下古今誰沒？況山木之為性也當生當枯\；伐之而后更夭喬，取之而後枝葉愈芝 (茂? 足?)。"

漁乃笑曰：     "因木求財，心多嗜欲；因財發身，心必恒辱。"

3.

樵曰："昔日朱買臣未遇富貴時，攜書挾卷。登山落徑行讀之。一旦高車駟馬驅馳，趨芻蕘脫跡，于子豈有不知？
            我今執柯以伐柯，云龍風虎，終有會期；云龍風虎，終有會期。"

4.

樵曰：             "子亦何為？"

漁顧而答曰： "一竿一釣一扁舟；五湖四海，任我自在遨游；得魚貫柳而歸，樂觥籌。"

5.

樵曰：     "人生在世，行樂好太平。魚在水，揚鬐鼓髡受不警；子垂陸具，過用許機心，傷生害命何深！"

漁又曰： "不專取利拋綸餌，惟愛江山風景清。"

6.

樵曰： "志不在漁垂直釣？心無貪利坐家吟。子今正是岩邊獺，何道忘私弄月明？"

7.

漁乃喜曰： "呂望當年渭水濱，絲綸半卷海霞清。有朝得遇文王日，載上安車齎闕京；嘉言儻論為時法，大展鷹揚敦太平。"

8.

樵擊擔而對曰： "子在江兮我在山，計來兩物一般般；息肩罷釣相逢話，莫把江山比等閑。
                            我是子非休再辯，我非子是莫虛談；不如得個紅鱗鯉，灼火新蒸共笑顏"。

9.

漁乃喜曰： "不惟萃老溪山；還期异日得志見龍顏，投卻云峰煙水業，大旱施霖雨，巨川行舟楫，衣錦而還；嘆人生能有幾個何。"

 

Appendix III: Lyrics for Yu Qiao Wenda 漁樵問答; As paired to the music in 真傳正宗琴譜 Zhenchuan Zhengzong Qinpu (1589)

1. 漁樵問敘

靠舟 [or 丹] 崖，整頓絲釣。人山濯足溪流。駕一葉扁舟，往來江湖裏行樂，笑傲也王侯。但見白雲坡下，又見綠水灘頭。相呼相喚，論心商榷也不相尤。寵寵寵辱無關，做個雲外之叟。

2. 漁

長江浩蕩，舉棹趁西風，篛笠簑衣，每向水深際侶漁蝦，湖南湖北是生涯。只見白蘋紅蓼，滿目秋容也交加。放情物外兮堪誇，櫓聲搖軋那咿啞，出沒煙霞。

3. 樵

飲泉憩石在山中，此江山不換與三公。只見....")